Page 1 of Tony Martin

While I have mixed feelings about the rights and wrongs of the Tony Martin case, the following statement, taken from a June BBC news website report, makes even my wishy-washy liberal mind boggle:

"The parole board, however, has continually refused him early release - saying he has shown no remorse and would continue to pose a danger to any other burglars."

Please, no "they got what they deserved, death`s too good for them" style rantings....

This item was edited on Wednesday, 30th July 2003, 11:31

It would appear that in the eyes of the law, we should make no attempt to impede a burglar in the execution of his/her duty. We should make every effort to render assistance in carrying out the task and gratefully accept any physical or verbal abuse the perpetrator might feel inclined to use towards us. Once a clean getaway has been achieved we may then contact the police before succumbing to our injuries.

Sounds a fair system to me. The only improvement might be bringing back hanging for anyone reporting a crime.

J Mark Oates

The expression "live by the sword, die by the sword" springs to mind when I think about the rights of would-be burglars - just ask any uzi-owning American householder. I`m sure there`s a "happy" medium between the American way (blast `em) and the UK way (use harsh language on them) but if I found some scumbag wandering around my house at 3 o`clock in the morning I most certainly wouldn`t be thinking about his (or her) civil liberties and I`m pretty sure he (or she) wouldn`t be thinking about mine.

I often find myself nodding in agreement with ebony's posts, but not this one … because I think there's something fundamentally different about a burglar entering your home. Your home is your own sanctuary, your escape from the world. It is, to quote the cliché, your castle - a principle that judges way back in the seventeenth century found important enough to lay down as a fundamental tenet of English law: in an act of considerable courage, they ruled that not even the king himself has the right to enter your home without first obtaining a lawful warrant from the court. They recognised that there is something psychologically overwhelming about the importance of your own home.

So, when people choose to unlawfully invade your home, I think the stakes are pretty high. What would be unreasonable force if you were confronted by someone on the street might become reasonable force in the heightened circumstances of discovering someone in the middle of the night in your own home. I'm not sure I could, or should be expected, to act rationally if I discover a burglar. If I live on my own in the middle of nowhere, I guess I'd have an even more heightened sense of terror.

I'm not sure I know enough about the Tony Martin case to comment on whether or by how much his actions were disproportionate - is pursuing with your shotgun an apparently fleeing burglar still reasonable? - but there is also something particularly repugnant about one of the burglars considering suing for injuries sustained while being where they shouldn't have been.

Whilst you can debate Martin`s right to do what he did as much as you like, and lets face it very few people who have an opinion on this subject are likely to change their minds so why bother repeating the discussion over and over. Instead...

...maybe we should look at the possible consequences of legally letting you take any action you like against an intruder on your property.

One of these consequences in my mind is that a large proportion of nasty robbers who sneak into homes and nick stuff, would have to bring in protection of their own. At the very least a baseball bat and most likely a gun.


Editor
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It is a difficult one because nobody has the right to kill somebody, but there were circumstances in the situation which this incident excusable (sp?). I think the law failed Tony Martin by not being flexible enough to look at the circumstances of the incident on its own. He didn`t plan on shooting anybody that night, he probably planned to have his dinner and a nice cup of tea and off to bed. What happened to the burglars came about because they chose to invade Tony Martins private property.

Rich

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I have just thought what I would do if I found a malicous burglar on my property - and I have to admit, if I had a weapon, I would be aiming and firing.

--
Rik Booth
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OK - so your wife/sister/daughter/ is driving home late one night and the car breaks down. Miles from anywhere and with no one to help, they spot a house and walk up the drive and knock on the door to ask for assistance. There is no reply so they turn around and retrace their steps towards the car. Halfway down the drive they are shot in the back and killed. Your feelings in that scenario?

To me, THAT is what the Tony Martin case is about. It has nothing to do with defending your home, that is not the issue. I have two daughters and if anyone was attempting to enter my house and I felt that they were threatened, there is NOTHING I would consider too extreme a measure to protect them.

Nick



"I always told myself size wasn`t important - `til I wanted a new telly"

If you wanted to plan a murder you could invite the victim around to your house ....well figure the rest out for yourself.

Oscar Wallace.

Quote:
OK - so your wife/sister/daughter/ is driving home late one night and the car breaks down. Miles from anywhere and with no one to help, they spot a house and walk up the drive and knock on the door to ask for assistance. There is no reply so they turn around and retrace their steps towards the car. Halfway down the drive they are shot in the back and killed. Your feelings in that scenario?

What the f***?! This is the point. What you have described is not what happened. Why are you bringing up that scenario? The man was being (attempted) burgled for the 30th time or whatever, and he defended himself as he saw fit. If you think he was wrong fine, but don`t try and defend your point by coming up with imaginary scenarios invloving a wife/sister/daughter.


Rich

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