Page 1 of Is High Definition the death knell for old movies?

I recently had occasion to watch Highlander again, remembering how much I loved the movie on video. But it just doesn't fare well on DVD. What could have been forgiven on VHS is stunningly obvious on disc. I'm talking about MacLeod performing a trapeze act at the end of the movie. More obvious wires I have never seen.

Now comes high definition formats, HD-DVD and Blu Ray. With modern films featuring CG perfection, high definition sounds ideal, supposed to show every nuance, every pore of the actor. But what about those old movies made pre CG. On HD, we'll be able to see every matte line, every wire, every brush stroke on matte paintings, and every flicker of grain in rear projection. Will we be able to watch old movies on new equipment, or is it asking too much suspension of disbelief?

With Star Trek being a CGI lick of paint for the HD generation, will every classic be run through a computer for a little digital touch up?


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Quote:
I'm talking about MacLeod performing a trapeze act at the end of the movie. More obvious wires I have never seen.
First thing i ever spotted about that scene. Thing is, for the close-ups he could have been stood on the floor with an upwards camera angle. Then they tried to disguise the wires with quickening lightening, just made it worse.

As for your point, i can only see classics being hyper-cleaned up of the studios think it`s going to be worth it. first out of the Blocks will be the original SW trilogy (I believe the prequels were shot in hi-Def anyway), but for some of the older prints they`d have to go back and repair every worn frame pixel-by-pixel.

I`m probably never going to own a HD anything, so it all goes over my head anyway. I`m quite happy with my bog standard widescreen TV and £30 dvd player from argos, thanks very much

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This item was edited on Thursday, 5th July 2007, 17:55

I`m wondering if they`ll clean up some of the wire work on the standard DVD of Face Off when it gets a special edition in September, it`s one of those things that once you`ve noticed it, you always focus on it.

Good point though, I mean watching some old classics with SFX like Ghostbusters on DVD really shows up how s*** they look compared to todays stuff, and HD will only make it worse, but seeing as it hasn`t been done for the vast majority of dvds, I don`t think it will be for HD either

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Personally I don`t see why any old film should be re-released on HD but we already know from the DVD experience that studio`s love getting even more profit from re-releasing films in several `special` editions.

I`m guessing it`ll depend on three things:
1. whether the studio have the budget to clean it up first
2. whether they`ll look to better the experience for new buyers a la Star Trek
3. whether the target audience would actually buy into a new improved version (I`m not convinced the Trekkies actually have yet...)

Still, there will always be companies like the one that re-issued those appalling martial arts films last year, not even HD will stop people trying to cash in...

*edit* meant to say HD instead of DVD above...

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This item was edited on Thursday, 5th July 2007, 21:47

Quote:
But what about those old movies made pre CG. On HD, we'll be able to see every matte line, every wire, every brush stroke on matte paintings, and every flicker of grain in rear projection. Will we be able to watch old movies on new equipment, or is it asking too much suspension of disbelief?
This is a point that has been brought up recently in WWE wrestling. Their American television stations are ready for them to begin providing HD telecasts, but WWE are stalling because they are concerned at how it may become stupidly obvious that punches are being pulled. They are also concerned about how the "glamourous" women in the company might look in HD.

For both wrestling and movies, the companies will have to take the appropriate measures to help to ensure that suspension of disbelief. In WWE, wrestlers may have to spend more hours training to make those punches look believable (and there have been many wrestlers whose punches and kicks look very good, enough for that disbelief suspension). In older films, if it is at all possible to digitally remove wires etc, that may be the only route to go. No doubt purists would argue that tampering with the original version of Highlander is criminal, but for many, it may be a choice between that, or failing to enjoy the film.

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I`m suprised at the ones where you can tell it`s a fake background in certain 80s/90s movies, such as The Goonies, were the kids are spying at the rundown cafe behind some rocks, you can clearly tell they`re in front of the blue screen, because the cafe and it`s surroundings are a shockingly different colour to them, which I never noticed on VHS.

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I don`t see why any old film should be re-released

It depends how the original was released first time on DVD. If it was released with a s***ty audio track, or it was cut, or the picture was badly scratched, or they found original deleted scenes, or original featurettes, which fans will find interesting from a historical point of view, or they`ve managed to get hold of the cast and crew or a film historian to do an audio commentary or a brand new featurette, so you can see what they look like now, for example Police Academy.

I love classic films from the 70s and 80s getting a makeover on DVD with newly discovered footage, its the re-release of the new ones I resent, because the extras are easily obtained.


floyd
simply bored witless by the entire saga of Luke Skywalker.... I thought Star Wars was dull, Empire was better, Jedi was worse.
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David Lynch won`t work in the format for the very reasons you mention..having seen a sci-fi show in HD where the ship`s console had visible screws in it!

New films only I think for me ...and creaking old TV shows (like `The Munsters`) need never get a `better than DVD` release as far as I`m concerned.

:D

I`ve been saying for some time that HD might be a double-edged sword. It won`t just be more obvious matte lines and wires to pull you out of the moment. I fully expect there will be lots of movies and tv shows where you`ll be able to spot makeup lines and toupee tape in close-ups. I watched a bit of Wizard Of Oz a few nights ago, upscaled from the current SD DVD, and I couldn`t help noticing bald-cap edges on the three Lollipop Guild munchkins. Goodness knows what it will look like at 1080p.

Munsters, Star Trek etc were only meant to be viewed at 480i (the US standard). Most shows will need a hell of a lot of tarting up painting out things we weren`t meant to see, so I suspect that "better than DVD" will be a short-lived, if not still-born experiment for HD. It would be smarter to make top-quality SD transfers, and pack a whole season on a single disc, which if I recall correctly was one of the original pitches for HD.

I don`t see HD being a death-knell for old movies, just a need for the Studios to exercise some care and attention in exploiting them rather than simply slapping a warts-and-all HD transfer on the disc so you can see how sharp the tramlines and coffee stains are.

J Mark Oates

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Some DVDs aren`t even up to DVD standard, let alone HD! Maybe we should all keep an SDTV for watching old films and only buy HD equipment if you really need it for the sound and pictute quality in your favourite films.

I like the set-up I have and won`t be upgrading to HD until the equipment is either affordable or I have to.

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Of course old movies should be released on HD.

35mm quality is better than the HD we have anyway ,so if its visible in HD then it was more than visible on the big cinema screen.

Some tv shows may exhibit some low budget defects but thats no reason for them not to be released in their HD glory.

Many tv shows ,especially UK stuff wont benefit from HD because they were made on Video or 16mm or super 16 so the remaining UK shows on 35mm (mostly ITC) and US shows should come out ,low budget or not