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which DSLR?

ste_p0270 (Elite Donator) posted this on Friday, 22nd July 2011, 18:36

new thread, `cos mr RJS said so!

ok...

i`ll (probably) be looking at getting a DSLR after my holidays.

question is, which one to get? setting a budget of £600 tops and that
includes the body / chassis and a zoom lens.

any suggestions old wise folk?

Ste
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RE: which DSLR?

RJS (undefined) posted this on Friday, 22nd July 2011, 23:14

Apparently Currys are currently doing a clearance on the Canon 500D, which is reviewed here:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos500D/

£202.44 in Merryhill clearance store only, apparently! So how long for I don`t know.

http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/canon-eos-500d-kit-with-lens-merryhill-currys-clearance-202-44-instore-only/982444


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RE: which DSLR?

RJS (undefined) posted this on Friday, 22nd July 2011, 23:19

So anyway, apart from that probably being at the wrong time to buy and miles away, Canon are a very good brand. Though personally I can`t get on with them. Sometimes it`s down to personal preference, other times it depends what you want it for.

Generally any major brand (Canon, Pentax, Nikon, Sony) would probably meet your needs, so its going to be a lot more down to what you are specifically after from a camera and accessories.

Like, if you are a paparazzi who wants to take so many shots a second you definitely get that gawp look from a celebrity or politician, or maybe you want something that can take a lot of punishment and survive the rain. Perhaps you want shake reduction built into the camera, so it works with any lens, or maybe you prefer it built into lenses.


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RE: which DSLR?

ste_p0270 (Elite Donator) posted this on Saturday, 23rd July 2011, 05:39

tbh, i`d like one which has the following capabilities:

large zoom (preferably 30x like my HS20)
good macro mode
ability to record 1080p @ 24/30fps
decent burst mode
decent resolution 10 ~ 14MP
shake reduction
built in effects (nikon D5100 does this apparently?)

not too fussed about how tough it is, i`m definitely a fair weather type tbh.
not too much chance of me wandering around in the rain waiting for an
opportunity to take a picture!! :)

Ste
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RE: which DSLR?

RJS (undefined) posted this on Saturday, 23rd July 2011, 10:53

Okay let`s try and break this down a bit. Firstly zoom/macro is all about the lens and nothing to do with the body. You can get a specific lens that will do a specific job which fits a Canon/Pentax mount, no problems.

If you wanted something tough and weatherproof, it might have been worth checking out the Pentax line, because some of them (like my K20D) are definitely that. They also have built in shake reduction, as does Sony if I recall. Canon requires it to generally be built into the lenses, but you know shake reduction isn`t the miracle you think it is. Nice to have but rarely important.

Canon fit lenses are generally £20-30 cheaper than others, I guess since they have the largest market share.

Looking at your list, it`s rather unrealistic. Actually it`s very unrealistic. I mean, some of it isn`t, HD video is becoming very common on DSLRs, though built in effects makes me wonder why you want a DSLR at all, and if you saw how huge a DSLR lens that gave a decent image with whatever a 30x zoom means (it`s a meaningless term unfortunately in photography, 30x what exactly? It could mean 30x the widest angle).

I think the first thing you may realise once you get a DSLR is they aren`t magic. :( You will have to learn how photography works, and the more you learn about it the more it will depress you.

Let`s take the 70-300mm lens Jimbo mentioned in the other thread. I said as long as he was happy with it, he said he was, and that`s fine! I know that I wouldn`t be, because from reading the reviews the moment you zoom in past about 150mm I would find the image quality drop off from the centre unacceptable.

The big problem is physics, and light, and sensors, and the fact that it doesn`t matter how much money you spend, physics always gets in the way. Modern sensors are as good as film, at least 35mm film anyway. But they aren`t better, and lenses still rely on glass, and good glass still costs money.

I`m rambling a bit here. Good job you don`t need a camera tomorrow, heh.

Let`s look at your zoom requirement as a good starting point. Let`s put aside the 30x figure, it really is meaningless, 30x what exactly? 30x the focal length of the widest angle? 30x bigger image in the frame? Bigger than what other image? DSLR lenses are measured in mm, and I looked up a Fuji to see what focal length range it had, and it said it went to 720mm and that was listed as 30x.

So okay, a 720mm is HUGE, really really huge. Let`s just pretend you could afford one, and I mean a half decent one, not some god awful unusable cheap pile of rubbish that nobody would find acceptable (one that looks like a fat telescope). So yes, lets say you can afford 8 grand for a 600mm Canon lens look how big it is, it`ll need it`s own tripod.

And even with its own tripod with that long a lens my god, keeping the image still enough to get a shot that has no camera shake will be tough. And that`s if its a stationary target. But no matter, you can open up the aperture and let more light in, only even an expensive lens like this only opens up to f/4, and the more you open it up the less the depth of field you have, and the less leeway you get to get the focussing right. And you`ll probably have to whack the ISO up a bit too, which introduces noise.

I think what I`m trying to say here, is not to put you off, but maybe perhaps warn you of the wonderful world of true photography. It really is a great world, I love it, but it can be hard work.

With a compact camera, you point, you click, if it doesn`t look very good you just say to yourself well it`s a cheap camera, you can`t expect it to.

With a DSLR, you point, you click, if it doesn`t look good you did something wrong. But you can do so much more wrong, and often at first it`ll be failing to understand the limitations of photography.


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RE: which DSLR?

Mikeonfreeserve (Elite) posted this on Saturday, 23rd July 2011, 12:14

Isn`t this why digital compacts took off?

Some of my best pics have been with an olympus XA film camera, cos it`s small and you can always have it with you. And it takes a jiffy to take a pic.

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RE: which DSLR?

ste_p0270 (Elite Donator) posted this on Saturday, 23rd July 2011, 12:45

see, that`s why i asked if we could have a photography forum on reviewer!!

i`ve asked a question and got an answer i can (mostly :p ) understand.

so... after looking at something like a nikon d3100 with 18 ~ 55mm lens, i understand
that it has 3x zoom? and i would need another mortgage and a course of steroids
to get and use a zoom lens with an equivalent range as my fuji? 

i`m not really that fussed about effects, it`s just something i saw featured on the d5100
which sounded cool. image stabilisation would be beneficial though, as i tend to sway a
bit when i try to keep still!! i also suffer this problem when i visit our local shooting range
i normally have to sit down to get a good shot!

some good points raised RJS, of which i will take on board. as mentioned, we`re off on
holiday in august and i plan to take a fair few photo`s whilst i`m away. i suppose this will
be a good indicator of whether the HS20 will be enough for my needs :)

Ste
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RE: which DSLR?

Jimbo :oÞ (Elite Donator) posted this on Saturday, 23rd July 2011, 14:00

Quote:
Robert John Shepherd says...
Let`s take the 70-300mm lens Jimbo mentioned in the other thread. I said as long as he was happy with it, he said he was, and that`s fine! I know that I wouldn`t be, because from reading the reviews the moment you zoom in past about 150mm I would find the image quality drop off from the centre unacceptable.

Are we talking about the same lens?
I appreciate you`ve probably forgotten more about photography than I`m ever likely to know, but before I bought this it was also recommended by a local professional Photographer I had as  a hire one night (he was the final nail in my decision to purchase)

I can`t find the reviews you describe (not doubting they exist, just can`t find any really negative reviews) and here`s a link to one on ePhotozine: http://www.ephotozine.com/article/sigma-70-300mm-f-4-5-6-apo-dg-macro-interchangeable-lens-review-4569

One comment on there complains about sharpness and focus (never had that issue myself) but all other comments and the review are positive.

:-/

Jimbo : oÞ

"There`s that word again... is there a problem with the Earth`s gravitational pull in the future?"

RE: which DSLR?

RJS (undefined) posted this on Saturday, 23rd July 2011, 17:23

Quote:
Jimbo :oÞ says...
One comment on there complains about sharpness and focus (never had that issue myself) but all other comments and the review are positive
You can see from the graphs on that review, however I`m not saying its a crap lens, merely saying that I wouldn`t find it acceptable. I`m also not going to demand you post pictures of it so I can point out the faults to you, because you are happy with it and that is a good thing!

Quote:
ste_p0270 says...
so... after looking at something like a nikon d3100 with 18 ~ 55mm lens, i understand
that it has 3x zoom? and i would need another mortgage and a course of steroids
to get and use a zoom lens with an equivalent range as my fuji?
Pretty much, heh.

But you`d also find that the 30x zoom on your camera isn`t actually of any use at all.


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RE: which DSLR?

ste_p0270 (Elite Donator) posted this on Saturday, 23rd July 2011, 19:17

Quote:
Robert John Shepherd says...
But you`d also find that the 30x zoom on your camera isn`t actually of any use at all
? i wouldn`t say that.

it does enable me to get pictures of stuff that i wouldn`t otherwise be able
to get near to.

Ste
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