Page 1 of New PC time...advice/recommendations

Its come to that time of year again when I`m thinking about updating my PC.
I have a decent case (Antec Sonata) which I want to keep.
Currently:
Gigabyte motherboard
AMD 3000XP processor
768Mb RAM
ATI 9800 Pro AGP gfx card
1x 200Gb IDE HD
2x 120Gb IDE HD
1 CD writer
1 LG DVD writer (dual layer + DVD-RAM)

I want to keep the optical drives and the hard drives (at least the 200Gb one, the others I might put into a NAS storage array).

My main reason for an upgrade is....because I want an upgrade :D
Main use of the machine is for games, and general PC usage.

First issue: I don`t know whether to go with the Intel dual-core or the AMD X2 chips.
Anyone got any good comparison sites or reasons why I should pick one over the other?

Also, based on that, any motherboard recommendations?
Would need Firewire (I394), USB2 (of course), IDE + SATA. Would also be looking at PCI-E for the gfx card slot, plus will need a PCI-E card to go with it :D

My power supply will then probably need updating, due to the fact that it doesn`t have SATA connectors...and not sure if 380W would be enough with the new CPU + gfx card.
Therefore, would prefer a quiet one...and preferably one of those modular ones (they look so much tidier!)

Anyway, if anyone has any recommendations, they would be appreciated.

Ta
Miles

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I really really don`t know why you want to upgrade your PC. :¦
Quote:
because I want an upgrade - at least you`re honest..
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Main use of the machine is for games, and general PC usage.
The graphics card isn`t bad at all but if you really want to upgrade, get a new graphics card and a bit more RAM. I honestly don`t think you`d notice an amazing difference with what you use your PC for...
(the AMD would be the better choice at the minute..)

Ste

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We will pay the price but we will not count the cost..

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at least you`re honest..

That much is true :D

I used to have 1Gb of RAM, but found I never used that much of it after stopping a lot of the video processing, so gave away one of my 512Mb sticks and stuck a 256Mb in that I had around (all running at 333Mhz).

The gfx card has done me well, and still performs for the games I`m playing (Unreal/Call Of Duty etc.)...its also one of the quiet cards, with a nice size heatsink and good fan. But obviously a new processor + board would mean PCI-E (at least I should if I`m going to the trouble of upgrading).

I really just want that fast boot up feeling and no waiting for apps to open etc. etc.
I rebuild my machine once every couple of months with a full format and re-install, and for the first week or so, it works ok...then all starts to slow down.
I`ve also been advised that the newer SATA drives provide better performance which might make things better, so want to give those a try.

Basically I`m like Chris (TheOgster) and have money burning a whole in my pocket to buy new stuff! :D

Miles

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Very, very simply:-

- The P4 has much better support for multimedia extensions hence faster video encoding. AMD 64s have in built memory controller so are more suited for games.
- AMD x2 processors absolutely wipe the floor with the Pentium D 9 series but the D 9 series are very cheap (for example the D950 has recently dropped price from over £400 to well under £200).
- With the introduction of Socket AM2 (for DDR2 memory support), and due to Intel`s price slash on the D 9xx series dual core precessors, the current Socket 939 AMD 64s have undergone a huge price drop.
- Intel have just released the Core 2 Duo processors (formerly codenamed Conroe) which makes mincemeat of the Athlon x2 and the FX series providing even greater multimedia performance (streaming SIMD and up to a reported 1333MHz bus speed). Also based on 65nm manufacturing it will produce less heat and use less power.
- For dual core motherboards, you need an nForce 4 or VIA K8 series for AMD x2 or nForce4, ATI 200 or Intel 945/955 for dual core Intels. Incidentally the Intel 955 supports HD audio for dolby encoding.
- Most boards support SATA RAID so take advantage of that for striping. If you have 2 hard discs that ARE not the same size then you can combine the 2 as one drive by using JBOD but JBOD is NOT officially specified as RAID so not all RAID systems support it and furthermore, JBOD does not give speed increases like with striping RAID.
- For graphics cards, generally higher pixel pipelines and core speed will give more performance.
- Your PSU should be fine if you don`t use a high powered graphics card - it is even sufficient to power a dual core processor. If you lack SATA connections then you can fit adapters to the molex plugs on your PSU.
- Intel P4 processors and dual core processors require an extra 12v 4 pin block from the PSU to the motherboard. If you don`t have one on your PSU then you can use the yellow 12V line and black ground line from 2 separate molex connectors and solder them onto a 4 pin block (or buy an adapter costing about £4).
- For a truly quiet PSU, you can buy fanless ones but they are expensive. If you are opting for a fanned one then offerings from Tagan and Antec will give you truly whisper quiet.


A decent system would consist of:-

1. Abit AW8 costing about £65. It has Intel 955 for HD audio and supports the dual core Pentium D processors. It does not have firewire but you can either buy a firewire card or opt for the AW8-MAX which does have firewire. Incidentally the AW8 boards have a passively cooled chipset so no onboard fans.
2. Pentium D 940 which can be had for under £150. It consists of 2 x 3.2GHz cores with each core having 2MB L2 cache. This is a much better option than the cheap D 800 series (even when overclocked) but if price is a premium then the D 800 series can be had for around £80 for the mid range version.
3. 250GB hard discs currently offer the best price per Gigabyte at around £50.
4. Most boards support RAID striping these days including the one mentioned above.
5. Tagan dual engine 600W PSU at £103 provides enough oomph and whisper quiet operation. It has 4 12V rails (compared to 3 on many PSUs) for stability and its ratings fall well within the ATX recommendations. It also has an impressive 80% efficiency (meaning 20% is lost as heat). A cheap PSU is NOT recommended if you go for a high end processor but if your current 380W PSU is of good quality then it will be efficient enough to support a high end processor as long as you don`t use a high powered graphics card.

Wonderful reply, thanks Mike.

I`m glad you said that about the power supply...its a pretty quiet one as it is (I bought the Antec Sonata case with the quiet power supply in it - which has the 4 pin P4 power supply cable. Didn`t realise you could get SATA adapters to go on the molex connectors...so at least that`s a bonus.

Funnily enough had the Pentium D940 picked out today as my preferred choice of CPU.

I`m still stuck on the motherboard. I`m not fussed about dual gfx cards (using the SLI) since I doubt I will really ever need it. I would like one with dual IDE ports on it (which since SATA has come about are lacking a bit now). Still reviewing a couple - but the prices are quite high for them.

Had a WD SATAII 250Gb 16Mb cache drive selected (was only going for one though - wasn`t fussed about RAID, for mirroring or striping). As I said I`ll probably set up a storage array and have 240Gb of storage in that, plus the existing 200Gb IDE drive that I`ll keep in my PC.

In terms of gfx cards - I`m a big fan of the IceQ range (my current ATI 9800Pro is one of those), and I`ve seen an 1800XT version of it today which looks OK, but will keep looking at those.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, very good of you.
Miles

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This item was edited on Monday, 19th June 2006, 20:17

The Abit AW8 is a very high spec Socket 775 board with the Intel 955 chipset supporting dual core Intel processors, 1066 bus speed and High Def audio. It also has 2 x onboard IDE as well as SATA and both IDE and SATA have RAID support. I have had my hands on this particular board in the past and found the layout very good, it is passively cooled with copper pipes leading to a big headsink at the back but setting up RAID within the BIOS can be confusing. It lacks a firewire port though but it costs about £70 from MicroDirect. The AW8-MAX version with firewire and a couple of extra features costs £120 I think so if you need firewire then the AW8 and a separate PCI firewire card will be a better option.

The Abit AW8 is probably the cheapest Intel 955 based board I have seen but if you want cheap, then ASRock have a 775 TWINS HDTV board which costs about £40. It is based on the Radeon 200 and ULi chipsets with built in x300 graphics and of course being a Radeon 200 chipset, it supports dual core processors. It has support for both DDR and DDR2 memory which is the first Intel based board I have seen that has this option but it is NOT dual channel though and consequently has to take a performance hit. At that price with onboard graphics too, it is an excellent buy.

If you set up as RAID striping, Windows will boot up a lot faster (which was one of your original criteria I think).

Also, I am glad you know about PCs, because my original explanation was (honestly) intended to be as brief as I possibly could make it and I was dreading the thought of someone asking me "Can you explain it all to a novice?" but as you are fully aware there is so much going on in the industry and so much to choose from. Look out for the cheap Socket 939 Athlon 64s though (if you are a games player).

Oh and your Antec PSU will do just fine - just don`t go over the top with the graphics card though!

This item was edited on Monday, 19th June 2006, 21:15

Didn`t realise the striping would help with the boot up speeds.
In which case I might get look at it. I assume you set up the striping in the bios, then also load the RAID drivers in the Windows setup, then Windows sees it as one volume when you do the install. I also assume that you still need to load the drivers for SATA drives in the Windows setup...(My XP pro install is the SP1 version).

I like the passively cooled bridges on the Abit AW8, but it does only have 1 IDE port on there.
I suppose that is actually enough if I keep one optical drive and the 200Gb ATA133 HD I have. These days there`s not much point having a CD-writer as well as the DVD-writer. The write speeds for CDs in the DVD drives used to be crap, but its fine now really.

I actually have a USB2 & Firewire combo PCI card in my drawer here...but I do prefer having it on-board. Mainly due to the fact there are only actually 2 spare PCI slots anyway. Granted that given the features on the board there is little that I`d actually need to add (that can`t be added via USB2) - but I would like to keep those options open.

The board does come with 7.1 sound, but I have a delightful USB2 Soundblaster, which sounds phenomenal, which I`ll obviously hang on to.

I noticed from the spec that it accepts the DDR2 800Mhz memory...(PC6400) - now it has me thinking whether to go the extra bit and get some of that rather than the 667Mhz stuff :D (I`ll still only have 1Gb, I really don`t need any more than that).
I think the prices may make me decide to keep with the PC5400 stuff though.

Its getting easier by the minute to spend the money ;)
Its getting harder by the minute to persuade the wife we `need` it ;):D

Cheers again
Miles

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This item was edited on Monday, 19th June 2006, 21:56

Miles,

The onboard sound on this board will knock the socks of your USB Soundblaster - believe me. It is High Definition and supports Dolby encoding with great high end and low end range. You are right and just checked that it only has 1 x IDE connector - I am sure when I tested it I saw two but maybe I forget.

The ASRock one has 2 IDE connectors though but once again no firewire. It is also passively cooled.

OK, I think I have my final list...see what you think

Motherboard: ASUS P5WD2-E Premium (£146.82)
www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Asus_177.html

Gfx card: HIS Excalibur ATI Radeon X1800 GTO (£146.82)
www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/X1800_Series.html

Memory: Crucial 1GB (2x512Mb) PC2-6400 Ballistix Dual channel kit (£96.29)
www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Crucial_DDR2_Ballistix_Kits.html

Hard Drive: WD 250Gb SATAII (£56.99)
www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/94403

CPU cooler: CoolerMaster Hyper 48 (£36.64)
www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/110720

CPU: Intel D940 (£155.43)
www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/102622

After reading a few reviews I opted for the Asus board due to the extra IDE, passive cooling, built-in firewire etc. Its apparently just as good as the Abit one (in fact the reviews I read said they were almost identical in perfomance).

I`m going to stick with one SATA drive for now, since I can always add another at a later
date.

Decided I`ll try the 800Mhz memory.

As for the gfx card, going in at the mid-range level (well just above mid), with the "silent" running version of the X1800.

In terms of the CPU cooler, I`m still not 100% with it.
The reviews I`ve read seem good, but there are worries over its weight and the stress on the board. At the moment I`ve not seen anything else that looks better to me, so if anyone has any suggestions I`d be interested.

Cheers
Miles

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Not sure if its any help but a mate of mine is selling this Gfx card.

The Jackal

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