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Question re: New R2 release of Saving Private Ryan

WRPT B.A. (Competent) posted this on Thursday, 4th September 2003, 15:08

Hi all,

I was just wondering if anyone could help me out by shedding some light on the DTS Bitrate of the new R2 version of Saving Private Ryan out this week? I`ve never picked up the R1 DTS version with the (I think i`m right in saying) full bitrate track, therefore can anybody confirm/deny if we have same version to save me importing? I`ve done a bit of trawling on the net but can`t come up with anything, it seems to be too new for reviews, any assistance would be gratefully received.

Cheers,

Will

RE: Question New R2 release of Saving Private Ryan

all_the_aces (Competent) posted this on Thursday, 4th September 2003, 17:35

Hi

I`m pretty sure that the DTS track on SPR Reg 1 is infact a half bitrate track, but it is still one of the best around. I assume that the R2 release will have the same mix, but you know what they say about assumptions being the mother of all......

Westy is the man to ask methinks, he seems to be all knowing when it comes to bitrates

HTH

RE: Question New R2 release of Saving Private Ryan

Jim Morrison (Elite) posted this on Thursday, 4th September 2003, 18:06

Looking at it in Woolworths today and the case claims to have Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1 tracks.

RE: Question New R2 release of Saving Private Ryan

RWB (Elite) posted this on Thursday, 4th September 2003, 18:17

The R1 was half-rate I believe, yes, so it is very likely the R2 will be the same. If the DD on the original release was so damn good, then even half-rate DTS should be pretty amazing.

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RE: Question New R2 release of Saving Private Ryan

Westy (Elite) posted this on Friday, 5th September 2003, 10:55

Popped it in the Sony DVD last night...

Half Bit rate 754kbps for both R1 and R2.

VERY unlikely well ever see movies with full DTS bitrates anymore, that time has sadly passed - which kind of defeats the object of DTS in the first place. You see...Oh bugger don`t get me started on this one again, PLEEEEEEAAASE!! :)

Still a monster track indeed, love the packaging for the R2 as well.

Westy

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RE: Question New R2 release of Saving Private Ryan

WRPT B.A. (Competent) posted this on Friday, 5th September 2003, 12:44

Many thanks for your replies folks, glad to know it`s a safe purchase.

Cheers

Will

RE: Question New R2 release of Saving Private Ryan

RWB (Elite) posted this on Friday, 5th September 2003, 18:38

Westy, can I ask without you suffering a nervous breakdown: why will we never see full bitrate DTS again?

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RE: Question New R2 release of Saving Private Ryan

Westy (Elite) posted this on Saturday, 6th September 2003, 16:35

Quote:
Westy, can I ask without you suffering a nervous breakdown: why will we never see full bitrate DTS again?


In essence, it`s all about cost versus the mass market. Though everyone would love to have DTS exclusive discs, the financial side of the deal would be so non profitable it would crush smaller production houses. Dolby Digital is and will ALWAYS be the industry standard discrete digital sound option for both cinemas and the home cinema/tv market. Why? Dolby goes hand in hand with the word cinema, Dolby have pioneered more sound algorithms than any other and have earned it well. Though DTS` claims of its formats superiority are convincing on paper, the reality is that it just isn`t THAT different or superior for it to ever take over as THE premier sound format of choice. Dolby is a bona fide household name, every new cinema projector has a standard Dolby Digital sound reader, every cinema booth has a Dolby decoder installed as standard, cinema soundtracks default to Dolby SR when things go wrong, the equipment to encode onto DVD for production houses is easy to use with full support, and a Dolby chipset to go in an AV reciever or tv is cheap and readily available. Getting the picture?

Ok, so DTS may be able to lay claim to all of the above, but the backing of the worlds most prolific director is not enough to convince DVD authoring houses that giving up the extra features and commentaries in order to store a full bitrate DTS track exclusively on one disc - whilst offering another retail product with Dolby 5.1/5.1EX without the DTS - is a solid financial proposition.

In a blind test, even the full bitrate DTS tracks of the past few years have offered no massive gains against the Dolby track. Why? Because not everyone has a system that can relay the extra dynamic power the track provides. Many people these days have a mid range amp, mid range speakers and affordable cable, which means the the so called `fine nuances and more rounded bottom end`, (what a load of pants - it amazes me how some reviewers dance around the issue and offer hand picked phrases rather than specific examples in order to make themselves believe the DTS is better, when in fact they`re having to MAKE themselves listen out for something different, even though the difference is so miniscule and irrelevant it`s not worth mentioning), are all but lost. Ok those with custom installs may think they`re hearing more, but balance the sound levels, (don`t forget there`s at least 3db of lift in every channel, that includes the LFE channel), and the Dolby track has nothing to be ashamed of. I sometimes wonder whether people would think it was better if the claims had never been made.

I sometimes wonder why DTS even bothered. In the cinema, the sound is stored on compact discs which are time aligned to the movie reel - of course the advantage is instant; no wear and tear, sound is stored optically on digital disc - but with it comes cost and extra effort in order to get the film running. Many projectionists have to endure 20+ showings a day in most multiplexes, many just believe, (and i`ve had this first hand from people who work at the UCI in Cardiff), that the Dolby track is no worse and as such setting up the booth for DTS use is not worth it. Deafeatist? Yes, maybe. Realistic? Definitely.

One format is enough for everybody - the only alternative which is clearly better, (yet ironically still uses the Dolby master), is Sony`s 8 channel SDDS, which is amazing. but not all cinemas can afford it. So do the math. Dolby will never topple as they offer real world solutions to movie/game/tv/DVD sound that is backed up by great support and over 30 years of experience in movie and home audio.

Just as Dolby B Noise Reduction was seen as the most effective solution to cutting out background noise on home audio recordings, Dolby Digital and to a certain extent, Dolby Pro Logic 2, are here and will always be here to stay. And the reason for that is that they do what they`re supposed to do, do it well, and Dolby doesn`t make a huge song and dance about it. Poor Dolby soundtracks are at the hands of the sound engineer, NOT Dolby! Anyone who has witnessed the surround mastery and power in films like Fight Club, Star Wars, (ANY of the movies), Toy Story 2, SPR, Daredevil, Lord of ther Rings etc will know Dolby Digital and Dolby EX offer thrills in massive quantity. So why bother offering DTS full bitrate when they can get this level of sound quality with Dolby AND get some extras on one disc as well?

I`m sorry to upset the DTS bunch here, but a `tighter` low end, (read a +10db lift in the LFE channel in the recording), and a cleaner treble and more cohesive soundstage, (i don`t care what anyone says - the arrows in the opening scene of Gladiator move around the room exactly the same with the Dolby track, and you can hear them just as well), do not mean the Dolby track is better - it makes it merely `different`. Better is when the DTS sound on Lord of the Rings FOTR sounds lifeless during the Mines of Moria and absolutely system destroying in its Dolby EX form during the same scenes. The overall sound is NOT down to the characteristics of the format - it`s all to do with the sound mixer. Find them midway through the credits at the end of every film... ;)

Rik, i told you not to get me started, but i hope this answers your question :)


Westy

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RE: Question New R2 release of Saving Private Ryan

RWB (Elite) posted this on Saturday, 6th September 2003, 17:00

I woke the beast... ;-)

Thanks very much for the info, Westy, you really are a fountain of techy knowledge - ta. :-)

So, would you recommend, me having the Sony HT-BE1 surround-sound system, to opt for DD by default, or go for DTS if the disc has it? About a fifth of my collection is DTS I would say, maybe less...and also, as I am nearing to watching the EE of `The Fellowship of the Ring`, would you advise watching it in DTS or DD?

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RE: Question New R2 release of Saving Private Ryan

sj (Elite) posted this on Saturday, 6th September 2003, 17:19

Watch it in DD.

Definitely.

The Mines of Moria is awesome.
Listen to the rears as they`re running from the fire monster thingy down the narrow steps.
Fantastic.

Ste

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