Si Wooldridge(Reviewer) posted this on Friday, 1st October 2021, 14:53
Quote: Robee J Shepherd says... "can I hand on heart say that I thought Brexit was going to be a disaster with no upsides and so far it has been a disaster with no upsides, then yes I can definitely say that." Not what I meant, but then I know we'll never agree on this.
I actually meant can you hand on heart say that nothing positive has come from or will ever come from leaving the EU?
You may well believe that, but that doesn't mean either of us is wrong. I can accept that, same as if Corbyn had been elected as PM at the last election. I wouldn't have liked it, but I would have accepted it as the will of the electorate.
RJS(undefined) posted this on Friday, 1st October 2021, 15:26
Quote: Si Wooldridge says... "I actually meant can you hand on heart say that nothing positive has come from or will ever come from leaving the EU?" Yes, I'd be thankful if anything was. I hope something good does come out of it. Will I feel that a few tiny good things outway a large number of bad things? No, because that would be stupid. Would I feel okay if things mostly balanced out the same? Yes I would feel a lot better about things, still being irritated that we aren't European anymore but it would just be mildly irritating.
Quote: Si Wooldridge says... "I can accept that, same as if Corbyn had been elected as PM at the last election. I wouldn't have liked it, but I would have accepted it as the will of the electorate." Putting aside the fact that I did not vote for Corbyn...
If Corbyn had been elected, I would completely understand anyone who did not vote for him being angry at decisions he made that affected them. I certainly would not expect people genuinley affected by them to say things like, "it's the will of the people, now we must all get behind him and accept whatever happens" because, well, that's not a democracy then?
Si Wooldridge(Reviewer) posted this on Saturday, 2nd October 2021, 07:39
Quote: Robee J Shepherd says... "Putting aside the fact that I did not vote for Corbyn...
If Corbyn had been elected, I would completely understand anyone who did not vote for him being angry at decisions he made that affected them. I certainly would not expect people genuinley affected by them to say things like, "it's the will of the people, now we must all get behind him and accept whatever happens" because, well, that's not a democracy then?" I'm genuinely baffled as I never said you did, and this is the second time you've done this re. Corbyn. You are taking a lot of what I write more literally than you need to rather than just take them as examples.
My point is simply this. If Corbyn had been elected, then I would have accepted the election result and done my best to live with it until there was a follow up GE with a chance to vote him out. It would the same with Keir Starmer, Ed Davey or Caroline Lucas, even if the latter two stand zero chance of ever having the chance to form a government.
I would almost certainly get annoyed about decisions he made that affected me and others, but I also hope I wouldn't let it rule my life.
I certainly wouldn't take part in demonstrations to try to reverse the election result within days of the result, as has happened a number of times recently.
And I'm also not suggesting you would do any of these things either.
I get annoyed and got annoyed at decisions that have been made by every government since I've become politically aware, and I mean every government. I wouldn't expect a massive overlap in agreement between us though as we are in different camps when it comes to policy, but I'd like to think there would at least be some.
RJS(undefined) posted this on Saturday, 2nd October 2021, 10:57
Quote: Si Wooldridge says... "My point is simply this. If Corbyn had been elected, then I would have accepted the election result and done my best to live with it until there was a follow up GE with a chance to vote him out." I don't get your point then, because the referendum was about if we stay or leave the EU, it was never specified what our relationship with the EU would be. You keep using the phrase "accepting the election result" without actually stating what you mean by that, who among us is not accepting it under your definition?
Which leads on to...
Quote: Si Wooldridge says... "I certainly wouldn't take part in demonstrations to try to reverse the election result within days of the result, as has happened a number of times recently." Firstly, nobody in this thread to my knowledge did (who are you arguing with exactly?), and secondly does it even matter if people exercise their right (which this government is currently actively trying to remove) to protest as long as they do it peacefully?
I don't see any difference between this and people who protested the invasion of Iraq, which after all was done by a democratically elected leader. I don't get this whole idea of shutting up and accepting something that you see as damaging or wrong just because a democratic process led to it.
I'm trying to understand, but all I read is long form variations of, "we won, you lost, sit down, shut up"
admars(Elite) posted this on Saturday, 2nd October 2021, 12:55
I think you two should either
a) Get a room ;) b) Step inside the square circle c) have a nice drink together
I'm pretty sure if you did c, you'd understand where each other was coming from better, I know sometimes I rewrite posts as I'm not sure my meaning comes across correctly, I assume you two have done the same more than once.
Should we arrange a 3 way zoom/teams/skype/whatsapp? :)
RJS(undefined) posted this on Sunday, 3rd October 2021, 08:49
Quote: admars says... "c) have a nice drink together" I don't drink unfortunately. Also, my life is too short to spend it with people who lack empathy. I just need to learn to completely ignore Si in any thread with any political angle.
Si Wooldridge(Reviewer) posted this on Monday, 4th October 2021, 07:20
Quote: Robee J Shepherd says... "I don't drink unfortunately. Also, my life is too short to spend it with people who lack empathy. I just need to learn to completely ignore Si in any thread with any political angle." Me neither, but the fact that it's obvious to others watching and that admars had the bollocks to step in and say something is appreciated by me at least.
I'm happy for you to ignore me if that makes you happier, although I prefer to use a forum to debate points, but I fail to see what I've said that shows I have a lack of empathy. We just don't agree on some issues. That's it. I've never, to my knowledge, cast any aspersions on the character of anyone I've disagreed with, despite some (not much admittedly) coming my way from a couple of people.
Seems to me we have lost the ability to see both sides of the argument and that's rather sad. We don't have to meet in the middle, but an understanding of where the other party is coming from would be a useful tool for anyone. I'm not offended by views contrary to mine, that's how we debate and increase understanding.
It's not like I'm constantly defending everything this government does in a purely partisan way either...
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