Page 1 of Hard Boiled... The Killer... overrated???

Having seen both of these films recently, after hearing such good things about them, I was sorely disappointed. At best they would be middle of the road 80`s action films to me, which is why I can`t work out why they are rated so highly? Admittedly, some of the `bullet-ballet` is ok, but there are so many things wrong with them in my books - perhaps someone can offer me some insight?

Your thoughts? Am I right, or am I overlooking something..? :/

I haven`t seen `Hard Boiled`, but I have seen `The Killer`, which was recommended to me by a friend. I found it to be absolutely mind-numbing.

My friend rates `The Killer` very highly; & he couldn`t understand why I was so disappointed. Personally, I can`t understand why he rates it so highly. If `Hard Boiled` is anything like `The Killer`; then I`ll give it a very wide birth!



"Stan is my best friend at church"

This item was edited on Wednesday, 21st April 2004, 19:42

They`re both definitely overrated!

They`re not BAD, but John Woo seems to have absolutely no restraint when it comes to action scenes!
They just go on and on and on and on and......on.......and......then on some more!
Eventually it just becomes very predictable and really quite boring, which is not really what you want from an action film.

Watching guys shoot back and forth with two guns in a variety of different poses is only entertaining for so long.

I f***ing love John Woo`s Hong Kong stuff (and Face/Off). Chow Yun Fat is definitely a big factor in my love of Hard Boiled and The Killer. There are very few actors in the world who are as naturally cool as he is 8)

They`re not perfect films by any means. But they`re great to watch. You have to realise that the budget to these films was tiny, yet they probably look 10 times their budget (at least). And Hard Boiled has one of the greatest endings to an action film... ever (talking the last 30 minutes in the hospital). If it fails to get your adrenalin pumping then you can`t be that big a fan of the action genre.

But Woo`s best film is Bullet in the Head. By a long way... :)

I completely disagree. Having been fed a steady diet of Asian action cinema for most of my life, I have always seen these two films as pioneer`s for the Heroic Bloodshed genre. Let me explain why.

HARD BOILED was John Woo`s farewell gift to Hong Kong before moving to the sunny shores of Hollywood. It boasts some of the most heart-stopping footage of ultraviolent gunplay from the director and excellent production values. However, at the core of this action masterpiece is essentially a buddy-cop movie. It lacks the emotional resonance of THE KILLER or A BETTER TOMORROW, but is still one of my favorites. All of Woo`s narrative tools are found here, such as the illustration of the identical thought processes between Tony and Tequila, and many more (doves, symbolism) which I won`t go into detail now.

THE KILLER is hands-down a superb piece of cinema. Yes, there's an overly sentimental streak running throughout much of THE KILLER (as there is throughout all of Woo's hero films), and while it's a bit much at times, it's nice to see an emotion outside of the normal action film standards (generally anger, revenge, and righteous indignation). In essence, THE KILLER is really little more than a Hong Kong spaghetti western/updated samurai film. It's a movie that deals with issues of honor and moral codes in a changing world in order to bring together two characters who appear to be completely different on the surface. Yet, like almost all of Woo's films, there are no black and whites here—only different shades of gray.

So, I find the comment Quote:
Watching guys shoot back and forth with two guns in a variety of different poses is only entertaining for so long., true in some respects but there is a lot more to be found in both of these movies. And in an age of the Tarantino`s and Rodriguez` I find it difficult to believe the comments posted here.

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<Opcode> I was gonna call 911.... but I was downloading a file.

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Well I dont know about the killer but Hard Boiled is a classic! Its a fantastic action film one of if not john woo`s best stuff....Face off was cool too :)

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But Woo`s best film is Bullet in the Head. By a long way...

I agree chewie. BULLET IN THE HEAD is the closest thing to an epic that John Woo has ever done. Its a brutal and fatalistic film, dripping with pathos as the dreams and loyalties between the three friends is slowly destroyed by the events around them. Kind of like THE DEER HUNTER.

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<Opcode> I was gonna call 911.... but I was downloading a file.

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`Bullet in the Head` is more emotionally layered than most of Woo`s films, but it`s also more pretentious and less accessible than the sheer exuberant silliness of `Hard Boiled`, which is so anarchic and outrageously, numbingly violent, that it essentially has no equivalent in American cinema. So I`d say `Hard Boiled` was Woo`s best film, if only for that rich vein of absurd humour running alongside the mind-blowing carnage and buddy-love nonsense.

--Mike

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Chow Yun Fat is definitely a big factor in my love of Hard Boiled and The Killer. There are very few actors in the world who are as naturally cool as he isI agree, he makes both of those films. Maybe as I had heard such good things I expected more?

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If it fails to get your adrenalin pumping then you can`t be that big a fan of the action genre.Like I said in my thread opener: "Your thoughts? Am I right, or am I overlooking something..?" I don`t understand why you are making that assumption - I just wanted peoples thoughts, not to be told that I `can`t be a fan of the action genre` just because I didn`t rate a film as highly as some others do.

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And in an age of the Tarantino`s and Rodriguez` I find it difficult to believe the comments posted here.Why exactly? Aren`t people allowed difference of opinions? :/

Those are the only two Asian films of Woo`s I have seen, I will have to check out Bullet in the Head, and the only thing I`ve seen of his that I can probably say is a particularly good film is Face/Off (which is excellent). Will give Hard Boiled another go, admittedly I was tired when I watched this and probably didn`t give it my full concentration. I just wanted to know if it justified another viewing and clearly it does. 8)

This item was edited on Wednesday, 21st April 2004, 23:39

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Like I said in my thread opener: "Your thoughts? Am I right, or am I overlooking something..?" I don`t understand why you are making that assumption - I just wanted peoples thoughts, not to be told that I `can`t be a fan of the action genre` just because I didn`t rate a film as highly as some others do.

Knew that might strike a chord ;)
Admittedly I`m biased with these films. It`s all too easy to set them aside as trash, but I feel quite strongly that they work as proper films, rather than just a violent spectacle. Out of them all, Hard Boiled is probably the most rewatchable. But watching it on my s***ty (but uncut) Tartan DVD, it`s hard to believe this came out at the same time as Terminator 2 (which looks spectacular on DVD).

Which brings me to my next question, is The Killer 2 disc set R2 DVD of good quality picture and audio wise? If not, what is the best version (extras don`t bother me much).
Also, is there an anamorphic widescreen Bullet in the Head DVD available?